More about the book from the author
Why do children instinctively want to run and jump and play in risky ways? What happens when parents, who have their children’s best needs in their heart, frequently stop children from experiencing the thrill of risky play? “No More Monkeys Jumping on the Bed (And other things the doctor NEVER said)” builds off of the familiar children’s rhyme, and encourages parents to let their children play! Parents, this is a great book to read with your children, and to remind yourself that play is nature’s best teacher. Let those kids keep jumping all around!
Tipping Points Editor, Annie Friday, assembled these questions for Rudi Gesch with suggestions and input from Tipping Points readers who wanted to learn more about the book and the process of writing it.
Tipping Points: Tell us more about your inspiration to write this book.
Gesch: My wife and I had two children very close together, and then a big gap for our third child- the older two were 8 and 10 when he was born. Somewhere along the line of raising the older two, I had an epiphany: everyone in the house was happier when the kids were actively playing. That may be obvious, but in today’s screen-heavy world, the temptation is to “sit them in front of the digital babysitter” and to mistake quiet children for happy children. But, over time, that’s just not the case.
When our third child was born, I was determined to make sure that he was always encouraged to play- and to do authentic play: outside, in risky, rough and tumble ways. Over the years of playing with him both inside and outside of the house, it became clear that he loved to jump. He would jump on, off, into, and out of everything. To encourage him, I would shout out and count down the familiar nursery rhyme “5 little monkeys jumping on the bed.” After about a million times saying that nursery rhyme, I got sick of saying the same thing again and again. So I started writing alternate verses. “What other kinds of animals jump?” I asked myself. This led me to come up with verses around kangaroos, frogs, bunnies, and dolphins.
So that’s all the verses really were- just an inside joke between me and my 2 year old. Then I heard Dr. Peter Gray on a podcast. I was blown away. I researched everything Dr. Gray did and said. I listened to other interviews. I read his book “Free to Learn.” I watched his TedTalks. Dr. Gray was giving voice to things that I knew as a parent, but didn’t really have the words to say. He had done all of the research and shared it in very approachable manner. Specifically, his talk about risky play was transformative.
Then, I wondered, what if the “doctor” in the rhyme (“Mama called the doctor and the doctor said, “No more monkeys jumping on the bed!”), what if this doctor actually had scientifically-researched advice for this parent? What if the parent were nervous about their “monkeys” jumping, and what if, instead of blaming a fictitious doctor that’s telling the monkeys to stop, what if the parent actually contacted Dr. Gray? What advice would Dr. Gray give? What would his prescription for the treatment of childhood look like?
What did you learn in writing this book?
To trust your instincts and to go for it! I’ve always wanted to write a children’s book. I tend to think creatively in rhyming rhythmic patterns when I’m in that frame of mind, and my kids are always hearing me sing little jingles and ditties.
So once I had the inspiration and the idea to include Dr. Gray in the book, I thought- this would be the exact type of book that I’d like to read with my son, and I bet other parents would too. That’s what inspired me to actually create this book.
Were there any challenges or surprises in the creation of this book?
My biggest surprise was how approachable and generous Dr. Gray was with his time and efforts. I’m a random guy from Wisconsin and Dr. Gray had no idea who I was. When I reached out to this famous professor, author, and thought leader, I didn’t think I’d even get through. Not only did I get through, but his willingness- eagerness even- to be illustrated and represented in a children’s book was delightful. It was even a collaborative process.
When did you first begin to learn about child development and the needs of children?
Probably college was the first time in Psychology 101 learning about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. I’m an educator by trade, so I get to literally see children develop over time and day by day. Nothing compares to actually raising children together with your partner in terms of truly experiencing that development and those needs for yourself.
Has your stance on play and child development changed at all since you have become a parent?
In some ways I’m much more intentional, and in other ways, I’m much more hands off. I’m intentional about the what. I’m hands off about the how.
I’m intentional about encouraging play. “Ok- you’re going outside for the next 90 minutes. Go play!” That’s it. That’s the only instruction. Let them go outside.
I’m hands off with how they play. I used to try to sit adjacent to them, and chime in with ideas about what they could be doing. I used to constantly micromanage their play. “Be careful!” “Don’t be playing with that ball when the other one is already in the yard.” Now, I let them get bored. I let them figure things out on their own. I think this is actually one of the hardest things for parents because we’re constantly being told to schedule everything for our kids. But authentic play isn’t something that’s scheduled and arranged for kids. Play is how kids learn by themselves to navigate the world. It’s a really important distinction.
How do you determine the difference between risky play and hazardous play?
Dr. Gray has a great definition of hazards that we share in the book: “Hazards are hidden dangers, dangers your child won’t see and can’t account for in a risky play decision. These are things like rusty upright nails and rotting tree limbs.” So he encourages parents to remove those hazards from the play area. And the play area itself is important- playing tag in a safe yard vs. in an open street is a big difference. Set appropriate boundaries for your children, but don’t tell them what to do inside those boundaries.
Dr. Gray also encourages parents to make sure the play is self-chosen by the child, not something pushed by the adult. Kids know their own limitations of what they’re comfortable with.
Can you share more about the benefits of risky play in general? And of jumping specifically?
Again, I’ll lean on Dr. Gray’s expertise: “Risky play helps children develop resilience, executive functioning skills, self-confidence, and risk-assessment abilities. Each time they engage in risky play they are engaging in their own science experiment: pushing themselves out of their comfort zone without knowing what the exact outcome will be.”
The Vygotsky theory of learning and development known as the zone of proximal development makes all the sense in the world to any parent who will take the time to think about it. How does a child learn to crawl? Not by watching a YouTube “How-to” video. Not by listening to their parent coach them up. They learn by doing. Specifically, they learn by taking a risk.
They’re trying something that they can’t do yet. And, as they try to crawl again and again, they fail again and again. They “fall,” (even if the fall is a few inches) to the ground. Then, over time, they develop the musculature, the coordination, the locomotion, and the know-how, and voilà! They’re crawling! The same is true for walking, and climbing, and jumping... and eventually things like reading, and writing. It’s literally the primary way we learn anything developmentally- we try, we struggle, we persist, and we eventually execute. But none of that happens without first taking a risk.
Any tips for adults who get squeamish while observing kids engaged in risky play?
The world is not as dangerous as we are led to believe; your children are more resilient that you think; and the alternative to allowing risky play is over-protected and fostering over reliance on mom and dad. Parenting is tough! We love our kids more than anything and want to protect them from harm. AND we’re also trying to raise competent, well-adjusted adults who will take their place in the world. For young adults to take their place in the world, they need practice in their upbringing at risk, failure, trial, persistence, and grit. All of those things are abundantly present in risky play.
For children, by putting themselves in slightly dangerous and fear-inducing situations and then handling those situations, kids prove to themselves that they can control their fear and bodies and deal effectively with danger. This will reduce their anxiety and they go through life and may even save their life when they experience a real emergency and react with confidence rather than panic.
There are all kinds of reasons that adult caregivers can tend to the side of over-protection. What advice do you have for parents/facilitators/ guides/teachers/caregivers who may feel inclined to safeguard their children’s childhood experiences from risk?
Count to 17!
Again, Dr. Gray has done the research for this. Experts suggest following the “17-second Rule”: if you are starting to feel uneasy about how your child is playing, step back and observe what they are doing for 17 seconds before intervening or reminding them to be careful. Often with a little bit of space, children are able to figure out how to safely engage in risky play without adult intervention, and might surprise you with what they are able to do independently.
If that still doesn’t work for you, grit your teeth and look away!
What are some interesting/funny/unusual places other than beds where you have witnessed children jumping?
My son started jumping off of my office desk when he was two years old. That was a huge drop for such a little boy. I had to take my own medicine and look away when he did that!
When Peter Gray is zooming in as the “doctor” to give his expert opinion toward the end, the cadence of the rhythm changes. How did this come to be?
Because it’s now time for the moral of the story. Really, he’s talking to the parents. But he’s talking to the parents in the presence of the kids. So, Dr. Gray is telling the kids that their instinct to play and to engage in risky play is right. He’s telling the parents that it’s ok and that their children will be ok.
I love the final picture on the last page where the parents actually “become” monkeys with their son. They’re playing together and encouraging those reading our story to do the same. It’s been so rewarding to have parents share stories with me about how this story and how Dr. Gray’s expertise has helped them to encourage risky play in their household.
Can you tell us more about the process of choosing an illustrator to work with?
This was far more difficult than I thought it would be. It took a long while to find the type of illustrator that I wanted to collaborate with. My aunt actually knew Bekah Grace’s mother and suggested that I connect with her. It was one of those half “eye rolls,” “Sure, Aunt Kelly. Your friend’s daughter who lives in England. Sure!” But then I went to her website, and thought her aesthetic was perfect for our story. Then I met her and it was a perfect match right out of the gate. She has been a dream to work with and I’d recommend her to anyone!
Do you have a favorite stanza or set of illustrations?
I think Bekah Grace, our illustrator did an incredible job. I love that the background scenes in each page “bring you through the house.” When the monkeys are jumping on the bed, you can see the couch in the next room that the kangaroos are going to be jumping on next. I thought that was very clever.
My favorite stanza comes from Dr. Gray’s portion and it’s really the moral of the story:
“Children at play will get ouchies and bruises,
But when we stop them to save them then everyone loses...”
Are there any other classic nursery rhymes that you’d like to re-write the ending to?
There’s an absolutely incredible book called “After the Fall” about Humpty Dumpty by Dan Santat that does this in an incredible, inspiring way. I don’t want to ruin the ending, but that’s an incredible example of this literary technique of taking a children’s rhyme that we’re all familiar with and writing a story around it.
“The Itsy Bitsy Spider” is a story all about grit (he went up the spout again!) that seems ripe for expansion of a story. What else could this spider climb to continue to model his perseverance?
Your website says you are fulfilling a dream by writing this book. Are there any other bucket list items or life dreams you have that you’d be willing to share?
I am trying to redesign my city’s municipal flag. I live in Sheboygan, WI. It’s a beautiful little city on the shores of Lake Michigan. I feel like we can do much better. I’m an amateur vexillologist (yes, that’s a thing!), and to add “Flag Designer” to my resume would be hilarious.
Submitted by a 2-year-old fan: “Purple!!!!” Maybe you can expand on any thoughts you have regarding purple?
Haha! I’m thrilled that we have a 2 year old fan. I would agree. Purple!!!!!!!!! Right back at you.
Stay Informed About The Movement
If you enjoyed this article and feel called to give back to ASDE, here are ways you can support our work:
- Donate money
- Share our content with others! Click one of the buttons above to easily share on Twitter, Facebook, or email.
- Consider becoming a Contributor for Tipping Points
Tipping Points Magazine amplifies the diverse voices within the Self-Directed Education movement. The views expressed in our content belong solely to the author(s). The Alliance for Self-Directed Education disclaims responsibility for any interpretation or application of the information provided. Engage in dialogue by reaching out to the author(s) directly.